My brain is all askew

[saifai]

I've got jumbled chaos running rampant in my head this morning.  I slept like a log last night, and good thing too.  My dreams have been strange, and last night was one of those that I dread sleeping because I fear what I'll see. 

Casper's Revenge
It wasn't all bad though.  I ended up having a strange dream alright, but one where I had a good heart to heart with my brother-in-law about my beliefs in spirits and the reactions I've gotten from people in church.  In an odd way, I'm happy to have seen him like that.  His dream self was very much like he is in real life, and I forgot how funny he can be.  Granted, my dream version was also making fantastic impersonations of Gollum and a few characters from Harry Potter, but other than the chosen characters...

Jumbled Chaos, Chapter 2
I can't seem to make my body work right.  First thing I did this morning once my morning routine was done, is sit down at the computer to wait out my brain.  I almost set my water down on a candy dish.  I picked it up to move it, the lid fell off, and all the little Hershey Kisses fell down between the wall and my desk.  I'll move them eventually.

Holiday Spander
Today is also the day I get to work in my Twelve Days of Christmas spander piece for lazuli_kat (links are here in case you're curious).  I've got a plot, I've got my research done, and I've got about three or four different perspectives already written out.  Hopefully it turns out well.  It'll have a Holiday theme, but with BDSM aspects to it.  Anyone up for doing a beta on something like that?

Hiding in the Hobbit Hole
It's day two of my Christmas vacation.  Yesterday, I ventured out of my hobbit hole only once, and even then I did it half dressed in my jammies and never left the car.  *gr*  Thank goodness for drive-up windows.

I bid thee adieu...
I'm gonna go make breakfast, clean up the Kisses, read a tiny bit of Snarry, and start on my story.  Not necessarily on that order.  There was more, but this was all my brain would let me have this morning.  More of my jumbled thoughts later when I think of 'em.

P.S.  Where are all the Christmas icons?  I need some in various fandoms.  I feel naked without them.

Comments

[velvetwhip.livejournal.com]

Have a great day, hon.


Gabrielle

[fantomeq.livejournal.com]

When my pet rats were alive, they would have loved to hunt for your Hershey's Kisses. I wish I hadn't eaten all of mine. And all the cookies too.

LOL, I think that all holidays have masochistic aspects. *Pretends to be clever*

If it keeps snowing, you might get to stay in your hobbit hole for a while. I wanted to get to Hastings, but it looks like it is not to be.

[fantomeq.livejournal.com]

Oh, I was also going to say that there are other branches of Christianity that are more open to the idea of spirits, and that might be worth checking out sometime. I can't think of any in particular, but as for other religions, definitely Wiccans and the like are great to talk to. There's a Wiccan church here in town that is associated with Crone's Cupboard on Orchard Street. And a Unitiarian church somewhere. I hear they're great.

[saifai.livejournal.com]

It's interesting to me. The branch I'm with, LDS, is very open about their ideas of the spirit world. It's an important part of it all. One of the church books I'm reading to prep myself for the work with the ghost hunting group deals with that very subject.

Yet, every person has their own personal ideas about it. Even if those ideas contradict what they've been told. I guess for some it's hard to believe unless they see it with their own eyes.

I'm not sure if any other religion will be different, at least from that perspective, with the exception of maybe Wiccan (love the Crone's Cupboard BTW... just down the street). I am however curious as to how other branches deal with it. LDS, Catholic, and Wiccan are the first to come to mind to me that have more of an emphasis on it.

[saifai.livejournal.com]

Now I've got images of rats coming out of the woodwork to pick up the Kisses. Meh. Them little buggers are hard to pick up. They go everywhere. Half way through getting them back into the tin I'm thinkin',"Just how many of these were in that little box?"

Holidays are definitely an exercise in masochism. *gr*

I've been told it's been snowing, but I refuse to look out the window. If I don't see it, it doesn't exist. Lucky for me, everyone else is coming to me today. :D

[saifai.livejournal.com]

I'm working on it... one piece of chocolate at at time. *gr*

[fantomeq.livejournal.com]

But they were cute little white rats with black spots! They did tricks!

I think it stopped at just a dusting, so it's okay outside.

[fantomeq.livejournal.com]

I didn't know the LDS church thought that. Cool. A lot of branches of Christianity are insistent about anything ghostly being demonic or created by "Satanists." Many people believe that Satan is quite active in the world and as powerful as God is. Others say there's no such thing as ghosts at all and Satan is more the anti-conscience rather than an active force.

If this isn't too touchy a question, I had a question about the LDS church and divorce. My old Mormon coworker said when her husband left her she had to have an official divorce ceremony in the church or never be allowed to remarry. Separating the two divorced souls as they're meant to be bound together in heaven, I think.

[saifai.livejournal.com]

The general idea with spirits, as far as I've read through church stuff, is that they do exist. They believe that the spirit's first job after dying is to watch over the body until it's laid to rest. They also believe that spirits do visit the living to pass on messages. There also is the belief that satan, or the adversary, is very active in trying to sway the living. There is a strong belief that many spirits are not who they claim to be, that many are evil. But they also have a way to identify spirits as either good or evil, and ways to help them pass on (or just leave you alone).

As for divorce, it's not a touchy subject at all. It's something I've had to look into myself. In a basic church wedding, you get your civil certificate, and then you go and "seal" yourself to your spouse "for time and all eternity" (basically ensures that you're tied to that family as a spirit).

When you divorce though, it's different for women. There's such a long drawn out explanation for this all, but basically we can get a civil divorce. We don't need anyone's permission to do that. A man can get remarried no problem. It is, I believe, the responsibility of the woman to "break" the seal. Woman cannot remarry another person, at least one that is a member of the church that you plan on sealing yourself to, without breaking the seal first. In order to do that, there is a process you go through to have that done.

For my case, I can have a civil divorce. I'll even discuss it with my Bishop too. I can remarry anyone I want, and never have to deal with any special divorce proceedings within the church. The seal I have with my current husband will remain intact unless I break it. Part of that is to that I will still receive the benefits of the sealing (there's a whole priesthood thingy going on there that has to do with the afterlife). However, if I meet another man later on that is a member of the church, and we want to have a wedding within the church and be sealed, I would need to break the seal from my first marriage first. I can still marry someone that's a member of the church, but we just wouldn't be able to be sealed until I petitioned to break the seal.

The husband doesn't have that problem, as far as I know.

Does any of that make any sense? It's kind of all complicated no matter which way you spin it. It can be a very easy process, and I've already decided that should we get a divorce and I marry again... I won't marry within the church (or at least if I do I won't want to be sealed). It's just such a hassle to break the seal.

[saifai.livejournal.com]

Okay, the rats sound kinda cute. Tricks are good. But they still can't have my Kisses. o.0

I just ventured outside. I had to open a new checking account. It wasn't bad. No specifically snowing (or at least not that much), and the roads aren't toooo bad. There is some out there on the roads though, depending on where you go.

[fantomeq.livejournal.com]

We fed the rats a little frosting once, and they got so excited they almost bit us. Our fault for feeding it off fingers. That stuff makes animals hyper.

Everybody apparently got freaked out about the snow, as the traffic report sounded bad plus we heard a lot of police cars out there. I'm so confused since they all drive SUVs!

[saifai.livejournal.com]

Fine example of that one there is the estranged hubby drove me out to the bank today. On our way there he tells me that he caused a wreck, but was not involved (didn't get hit). It's because he drives a truck and has four wheel drive. He stopped on a dime at a light, and two cars behind him hit each other because they couldn't stop the same way. It happens a lot I would imagine.

[fantomeq.livejournal.com]

Hmm, really interesting. The Catholic church has changed their views so much on the topic, I don't really know what they think now. My dad was Catholic and I was raised general Protestant, although I'm neither now (but I used to teach Bible school and was once a Fundamentalist).

Does that bother you that the rules are different for men than women? I got the impression that women in the LDS church couldn't go to the same part of heaven unless they're married, which I assume is what you mean by the benefits of being sealed. I've had a hard time with being treated poorly since I moved here since the general attitude toward women is different. I find it very frustrating sometimes, and I grew up in a very conservative, redneck area of Illinois.

[fantomeq.livejournal.com]

Oh crap, that sucks. Everyone here drives SO SLOW when it's snowy, and I drive a tiny little car and haven't ever had a problem. Now in Illinois, I've gone into free spins before and have slid through a traffic light many a time (yikes). I do wish they'd salt or cinder or sand or plow or SOMETHING around here. It's just not safe.

[saifai.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure about Catholic, though I've heard it's a touchy subject depending on what sect you're with. I was raised general Protestant, though my own experiences have shaped my beliefs.

I doesn't bother me, only because I don't think that's true. I've never been treated with anything but respect, but perhaps part of that is my own attitude I was raised with. I think what the church teaches and what people do with that knowledge are two separate subjects. It really is left to the families to decide their own dynamics and what works for them.

As far as the afterlife is concerned, women aren't denied any particular benefits (either her or in the afterlife) because of their marital status. At least to my understanding. The only thing women can't do is hold the keys to the priesthood (married women get the benefits of it from their husbands, but even single women have access to it through the men in the priesthood), but then women have many duties that men cannot perform either. Basically, it was explained to me that we're on equal footing, but with different jobs to do.

As I said, perhaps part of that is the way I was raised. My grandmother and mother were both feminists in their way. I was raised to be strong. I really do think the way you were raised to believe is a big part of it. I've met humble meek women in the church, and I've met many like me who feel they hold a strong presence and deserve nothing less than respect from those around us.

There's a recent article from the current church President that goes into detail about his thoughts on the women of the church, their roles in our lives, both here on earth and in the afterlife. You can find it here. It's worth reading if only to get a good idea of what the church teaches us. Now how the respective members put that to use is another matter entirely...

[saifai.livejournal.com]

Agreed. I think people are far better prepared for it here than in other places, but I think people get careless thinking they're driving tanks. I spent a good deal of time in Colorado when I was young. I remember what REAL snow looks like. This is nothing. But what we do have, it'd be nice if they did something more about it.

[fantomeq.livejournal.com]

I recently read that the college president of BYU was encouraging kids not to wait until graduation to have children even if they can't afford to take care of them. Apparently he had several before graduating from college himself.

That is a good attitude from the church president. I haven't received it myself, sadly. When moving to this part of town, I was questioned repeatedly by neighbors about how long I was married and why I didn't have children yet--even before I moved in. I found it very uncomfortable. When shopping for auto parts or other "manly" items, I'm consistently patronized, although I don't put up with it. My neighbor Julie says it's the same way with her. She chose to only have two children (as hers had similar problems to mine), and the neighbor with nine is quite rude about it. I won't blame it on the church entirely of course, because that's not right, but there seems to be a strong connection with the belief that a woman's most important duty is having children and that it's not a choice. Often the same problem comes up in Catholicism, of course, but not as strongly. I have a hard time explaining how I feel to people who treat me that way, and I get so angry. How do you handle it? I hate to think of it soon being directed at Elizabeth.

[fantomeq.livejournal.com]

If they have a Hummer, they are practically driving a tank, LOL. I hate those things!

We had real snow in Illinois when I was a kid, but not so much anymore. Except this year! My poor aunt was without electricity for a week. I'm glad it's been so pleasant here.

[saifai.livejournal.com]

Yes, there is a lot of pressure to have kids. There is a lot of support from the church (financially and otherwise) for those who wish to have them but can't necessarily provide for them. They figure the Lord will provide for you if you have faith (ie you'll find a way to make it happen).

The only thing I've ever had trouble with is the attitude about asking my husband about purchases, like cars. I've boycotted several dealers in town because of that attitude. Usually my narrowed eyes or raised eyebrow is enough to dissuade most from pressing me. I will fight them, and have before.

I've been married eleven years and don't yet have kids. Yes, I've had a lot of questions. The biggest pressure has been from Mark's parents. At one point they took us aside and made some pretty derogatory comments about it (making assumptions about why we hadn't yet done it). I got upset, told them it wasn't anyone's business but ours, but granted them a partial explanation (most of it due to my medical problems, and having to anticipate having to save up for adoption as a very real possibility). As for anyone else, I just smile and shake my head. Sometimes I tell them it's not something we're able to handle at the moment.

There are times I get upset about it, but it's very hard for me to hide my emotions. Most people who see me getting upset with their line of questions leave me alone. For those that don't, they get the "I appreciate your concern, but it's none of your business."

I don't blame you for not looking forward to that attitude directed to Elizabeth. Honestly, I didn't join this church for a long time because I'd been met with such hostility. There are a lot of members with nothing better to do than stick their noses into other people's business, and I have absolutely no patience for them.

[saifai.livejournal.com]

I hate Hummers. I really do.

I feel sorry for your aunt. I'm so paranoid about things like that happening. I'm happy to have the pleasant weather. The weather is usually very mild here. I like that.

[fantomeq.livejournal.com]

Ah, I didn't think about car dealers. I bought a car here from a little old lady, so that wasn't a problem. Her husband seemed impressed by my checking the tire treads and fluid levels and such rather than amused, which was sweet. Which dealers did you have problems with?

I was wondering how long you were married. Jeff and I have been together ten ourselves, married five. We told a realtor that we wanted to wait to have children until we could afford a house, and we got quite a rude response. Now I blabber on about the medical side of things (I'm already being asked where #2 is!), when I should really do what you do. No one would ever ask that in Illinois! It sounds like you have the right way to respond.

Do you feel the church discourages you from associating with non-members? I feel very excluded in this neighborhood sometimes, and so does my neighbor Julie, who is an ex-Mormon. I never even mention religion to anyone, but they know I'm not with the LDS church because of the neighborhood church rule. (Is that right? My old coworker said that you're only supposed to go to the church closest to your house, even if you move to another part of town and want to go to the old church. Her husband couldn't go to the same church as his daughter because they lived in different towns.)

I think you have an excellent attitude for dealing with these problems. I'm still so surprised and put-off by it that I don't manage well.

[fantomeq.livejournal.com]

I think Hummers are larger than my first apartment! I'd be terrified to drive one of those.

I do enjoy the weather here. No shoveling, no humidity, hardly any mold. Best of all, no tornados!

[saifai.livejournal.com]

Most of the dealers are out of business now, thankfully. One of them was AutoTend or something like that. I think the business might still be there, but under a different name. One in particular I had a problem with, but not because of the "where's your husband" thing (it was over their assumption of our financial status), was Bodily RV.

As for associating with non-members, yes and no. We're taught that we don't have the right to judge anyone, as only Heavenly Father and his Son can do that. We're also told to be charitable to everyone, especially our neighbors. In most of the wards I've been in, they're big about making sure the non-members in our neighborhoods are well taken care of (visiting, seeing if they need anything, dropping off goodies and what not).

There is a general rule that you shouldn't associate yourself with anyone that could be a poor influence on you. For example, it might not be a good idea to hang out with the local drug deal dude or the pimp down the street. But that certainly isn't a rule that applies to your neighbors, unless of course you suspect they might have a drug lab in their basement.

Yes, the church has people go depending on their boundaries. It's setup much like school districts, only there's a lot more of them. Generally speaking, you'll usually go to the ward that's closest to your home. If you move, your records are transferred to the ward that is closest to your new home. You can go to whichever ward you wish, but if you need something (counsel from your Bishop, financial help or help with groceries, want church duties, and etc.), then you need to do that in the ward closest to your home.

I suppose I haven't always had the greatest attitude about it all. It's just come with practice. Sometimes I just end up ignoring someone and change the subject (think Xander in these situations... a good joke to distract someone is always a good tactic). I have a real habit of getting upset with people, so I always try to prevent myself from getting into those situations. My fuse is very short.

I admit I'm a bit afraid of how the members of the church will treat me now that I'm on the verge of divorce, but so far the people I've had contact with have been very supportive.

[fantomeq.livejournal.com]

LOL, there's a joke in South Park about Mormons being so nice it's creepy. :D One of the neighbor girls heard Jeff swearing in the garage once, and I think she's scared of us now. Now the family doesn't talk to us much.

When I went to the Evangelical church, they told us never to date non-Christians because they would contaminate us with TEH EBIL. I figure that someone's faith must be insecure to be so afraid of that kind of thing. Same as all the parents so terrified of what their kids might see on TV instead of monitoring what they watch and instilling solid values that TV won't ruin. (I tried to explain that to a phone solicitor once and she got very angry.)

This is really interesting to have the LDS church's opinions cleared up more. Sometimes the church is a little secretive. :) I do hope the church members treat you well, and not in the "you poor, pathetic thing" way. It's been hard, but there are some great opportunities to change your life ahead. (But I expect a few people will be desperately trying to fix you up with a new guy, argh.)

[fantomeq.livejournal.com]

Just wanted to tell you good night, as I'll be going now! I had a nice time talking to you (although anxiously wondering at times if I was being rude in some way).

[saifai.livejournal.com]

Have a good night yourself! It really has been nice, and you were just fine. I don't mind talking about things like this. You asked it in good faith, and I appreciate that.

[saifai.livejournal.com]

Funny you should mention the South Park thing. I had much the same reaction when I first got married. I didn't join the church until maybe three years in (and on my own, not something hubby or his family encouraged). When I first met a couple friends of his family I told him, "She's so nice it's creeping me out. Is she on something?"

Ironic about the swearing thing too, as I would imagine many of them swear in the comfort of their own homes. At least, where they don't think anyone's listening.

I think there's far more discouragement from associating with non-members for the children than anything. Mark's parents had a hard time accepting me because I was a non-member. Part of it was their beliefs in dating (only in groups, never the same person twice sort of thing), and partly because of our potential future (how would we deal with raising our kids with different faiths). I think you're right at least on that part, that people are insecure in their faith if they can't take talking with a few non-Christians. If you instill solid values in them, you won't need to worry about your kids as much when they go out and meet the real world.

...and soooo not looking forward to people trying to fix me up. I'm just waiting for someone suggest I start attending the "singles ward" downtown. Ugh...

[fantomeq.livejournal.com]

I appreciated the conversation. There are a lot of misconceptions about the LDS church, and a lot of resentment out there, and it really made me understand some things better.

[fantomeq.livejournal.com]

I think it's very important for children to be exposed to a wide variety of religions and races (unfortunately Boise's awfully white). Should I take Elizabeth to a church, I think we'll go to the Unitarian one, which has a "university religion class" style that ties the main religions of the world together and encourages spirituality in general. I'm a spiritual atheist, which is kind of hard to explain, but it works for me. :) I find it hurtful that so often I'm considered to be a bad influence or even a criminal for not being religious, but it's something I've had to deal with for a long time. The funny thing is I "sin" less than when I was Christian, and my values are more important to me. When I was a fundamentalist, all I worried about was how everyone else was going to hell! :P